Category Trail Running

So today we ran the Greenleaf Trail 30K.   It was a lot of fun.  At 19.5(ish) miles it was our longest distance and it took us a looong time.   At our skill levels there was just a lot of trail we couldn’t run without significant risk.  And with our first marathon in 4 weeks we chose to err on the side of caution.

This run was primarily just to have a long weekend run and to push our selves a bit.

We had a great time being outraged at the lack of flat ground, having to go miles on the side of a hill trying to walk on ground sloped at 45 degree angle which is super hard on the ankles.

Around mile 10 we got passed by a 67 year old woman, never did catch her.

Around mile 15-16 we started running into cramping problems with muscles we don’t normally use for due to road running primarily.  For me it was my inside groin muscles, the ones that run down the inside of your thighs.  For my RW it was hamstrings and assorted other places.

I used a GoPro for the first time and filmed some snippets on each mile although mile 18 and 19 got lost although I was able to do a second mile 19.  Battery failure.  That was fun and I learned some things about filming on a run.  I now have a gimbal to help with keeping video steady that I need to learn to use.

When I get around to putting the videos together I’ll post them on the Run Salty channel on Youtube primarily for friends and family to pretend to enjoy watching.  It’s really about having the memories to look back on later on down the road.

All in all it was a good run for multiple reasons, a it was just a lot of fun, b it pushed us a bit in terms of effort both mental and physical, c it was a lot of fun.

Equipment used:

Lone Peak 3.5 from Altra – Held up well, they’re servicable, not my ideal shoe but good enough

Stryd FootPod – Does not work well with a mix of run hike.  Was almost a mile and a half short of the 19.5 run.

Garmin Fenix 5X  – Best option of the watches out there for me for various reasons.

Road ID – So someone can identify the body.

Google Pixel 2 XL – Wonderful camera for taking still images and streaming music.

Saloman Skin 12 – Wonderful vest, highly recommend.  Not perfect but very close.

Ultimate Directiojn Soft Flasks with Extended Nipples – Lets you drink your fuel without having to take the flask out.

Source Hydration Bladder – The Milspec version 2L with insulated hose in Coyote Brown

EFuel – Wonderful drink mix for fueling.  Works very well for me.

EGel – Wonderful gels for fueling.  Works very well for me.

GoPro Hero 4 Silver – Audio sucks while its in it’s case.   Just be aware.  Mounted to a selfie stick of my own design and 3D printed on a MakerWorks MendelMax 3 printer in PLA.

Garmin HR Senson on Polar Chest Belt – HR monitoring sucked for some reason with a metric butt ton of drop outs and missing data.

Underarmor bike shorts, Champion shorts, REI Thin Base Layer shirt, Halo skull cap

The search for our 50K continues. “The” 50k we want, okay I want, is one that doesn’t have a ton of elevation change, no loops although a minor lollipop is okay, the scenery has to be decent, it has to have a long enough cut off that I can finish it and it has to be well supported. My primary running wife would prefer a trip to Paris and not Texas but she’s got bigger tastes than I do. For me the race is the thing, the achievement of doing something I would have had no idea was possible.

Cut off times is an issue. I’m not fast. I’m currently at my lowest weight since I was in high school and that’s 250lbs. It takes a lot of energy to move that much mass. Your typical runner is going to be more like 160 to 170 so I’m humping 80lbs more. Imagine putting an 80lb backpack on and then going and running?

Since the longest distance we’ve done is 17+ miles we don’t really have any idea of how fast we can do 31 miles. Or if we can. That 17 mile day was a good day for me but a bad one for my RW. I felt like I could have gone a few more miles pretty easily. She was done in.

When things get tough for us we tend to diverge. She hurts more when she walks than when she trots. Me I’m the opposite, I’m out of energy and ‘done’ and walking is a chore.

Due to the cut off time, a 50K that’s part of a longer race is a preferred set up because they have longer cut off times. When 50K is the longest race the cut off times seem to be 7.5 to 8 hours. Yes I know, who can’t run 31 miles in 7.5 hours? Well… probably me, especially if there are serious hills involved.

There’s a local 50K in June that I’m probably going to try regardless. Why not? I can drive there before the race, the race proceeds go to keep wild horses a place to hang and you get a bandana of the route map. Seems like a no brainer to try it.

It’s certainly not my ideal ‘first race’ for a 50k. But at some point I’ve got to give it a shot regardless and a cheap local race if I fail is far less disappointing than spending a grand flying somewhere, hotel, race and daily expenses and getting a DNF.

We’re planning on doing a 50K, mentioned that before. But a LOT of 50K’s have a LOT of vertical change. So… after my 25K almost killing me from hills (true story) we’re working hills into our weekly rotation of training. On one ‘easy’ day we’re going to go run up and down a nearby trail hill. Semi technical, maybe a 5 out of 10. It’s about a fifth of a mile with a 30% grade. Run up (or walk after the first couple) then scramble down. Lather rinse repeat.

That’s what we did today. 30 minutes worth got us 2 miles of hill work. It was a recovery 30 minute day. And I had to get on a meeting or I’d of extended it another couple of laps at least. Getting pretty damn tired of west coast people’s lack of consideratin for other time zones. If they didn’t also wander into the office between 10 and noon I wouldn’t be quite a pissed but a 2 hour time zone difference and a 3 to 5 hour get to work difference and they don’t bat an eye at scheduling meetings in my evening because it’s just their mid day. But I’m sure everyone has work issues.

Nothing really of note on this run. Cold but not OMFG cold.

My running wife, the one I’m not married to, and I did a 5 mile trail run recently that was pretty technical back on Labor day.  She did a good job of putting up with my pace (don’t let her tell you otherwise) and not sprinting out ahead.

I ended up on all fours in the middle of the trail

There was a couple of stretches where we had to walk simply due to congestion on the trails which were single file in a few locations.

The end result was another distance where I finished with little pain from my ITBS area which again points to the physical therapy routines I’m doing actually helping.

Trail running is really just more enjoyable than road running but it can be more painful for sure.  On technical sections you really have to watch your footing, loose rocks, roots, deeper sand, gremlins or bad things can happen.

And those bad things happened to me twice.  I ended up on all fours in the middle of the trail and while under some circumstances that’s not a bad thing at all, in this case I left skin from two elbows, one forearm and two knees behind.  Rug burns but without the enjoyment of getting them.

The biggest problem I have is on the semi-smooth/easy stretches I let my guard down and start scanning the trail further down, not where my feet are landing.  As a result I tripped over a rock and a root.   The second one also wrenched the muscles in the right side of my back.

That’s not a complaint now, I’ve already been back on the trails and will be back again, and again.

It’s just a warning that trail running has dangers that are different than those of road running.  You’re more likely to take a fall, you’re even more likely to get lost, hopefully not to the point where they have to send in a rescue team but to the point you may end up running further than  you planned.

And it does require a bit more in terms of gear.  A hydration vest or pack IMO is preferable to hand helds for trail running so that your hands are free to catch yourself in a fall.  Of course if you never fall then go with whatever works.

Asics Nimbus 19 update – I’m not finding the shoe to be very durable.  I’ll be surprised if I get 250 miles out of it to be 100% frank.   Comfort wise for my feet they’re good shoes.  I’ve run my longest distance so far, 11 miles, in them without issue.  But the the tread, what there is, is wearing off where I push off on the forefoot on both shoes.   The lining is pilling up in the heel area where my blister resist patches don’t cover.

the better the cushion the better the pushin’ is something I’ll have to keep in mind.”

And this is with maybe 120 miles on them.  My 18’s got 300 miles before I wore the heels out of them.  I wasn’t using any blister patches on those or even just your basic duct tape or gorilla tape patch.

Granted I’m a super clydesdale but still I expect more I guess from a ‘premium’ shoe that runs $150 dollars release price.

In my search for a 50K trail shoe I picked up some Topo Terraventure’s.   I haven’t run in them yet but they fit better than my Leadville 3’s and my Altra Lone Peak 2.5’s.

I ran 4 miles today on trails in the Altra’s and they felt decent but I don’t think they’re 50K shoes for me.   They’re super comfortable though.  If they don’t work out as trail shoes then I’ll make them every day shoes, they’re that comfortable.

I also picked up a pair of Topo Ultrafly shoes.  The Topo shoes have some very good reviews and both felt pretty good to me.

I’m still looking for a marathon distance road shoe.  I’m not sure the Ultrafly is it but the Nimbus 19 and 18’s are not.    I have a pair of 18’s I picked up cheap as spares for interval and tempo training runs but getting something for the weekly long runs which keep getting longer is needed.  To go the distance the old adage the better the cushion the better the pushin’ is something I’ll have to keep in mind.

Ridiculously that gives me 3 pairs of road shoes and 3 pairs of trail shoes.  Which is crazy talk for #notarunner.   In my 20’s I ran literally in the same shoes I wore every day.  Just basic generic ‘tennies’.   With a $10 timex digital watch with a stop watch feature.   Distance was based on half mile marker posts on the trail or the cross streets.

But now shoes that are perfectly acceptable for 5k’s are questionable for 10k’s and really need to be re-examined for longer distances.

How times have changed.

I think my training schedule is going to get in the of making running fun.  The trail run we did on Sunday was really enjoyable for a number of reasons; it brought back memories of woods running when I was a kid, of my glory days of stalking my friends and strangers in the woods for the purposes of shooting them with paintballs, of running back with a flag or trailing a flag runner to defend them.   Good times, goooood times.

getting lost, huddling naked for warmth, wolves”

But… I’m training for my first half marathon in April with a second one in May.   By random chance my training finishes the week before my first half.  Timing is purely coincidental.   We’re at the point where short runs are still taking an hour and the long runs are upwards of 2.5 hours.   So fitting in trail runs without impacting that schedule or over-training is going to be tricky.

Not to mention I’m going to be training for a stupid full marathon over the summer months which run from hot to OMFG hot around these here parts.   The marathon training though is a necessity as we’re more than likely barring injury or death going to do an Ultra in October.

Not sure how much time that’s going to leave for trail running between now and then.

Gear wise I’m still loving my UD Jurek FKT vest.   Barring tailoring a custom vest myself it’s about as close as I’m going to get to what’s right for me at the moment of the available options.   I need something possible lighter with just a single water bottle pouch on the back for the shorter runs where I don’t need a bladder’s worth of water.

I like my Amphipod belt but it can be distracting as with a water bottle it tends to slip down and I have to hitch it back up, a vest would resolve that.    Or possibly craft myself something like a Nathan Peak, one of the type that holds the bottle at a slant at the back.

After getting thornbit in our second outing I’m going to have to consider wearing tights when going back out.   I was wearing some calf compression sleeves for that purpose but the thorns nailed me above those.  Enough that wearing pants is annoying.

It was enjoyable talking about getting lost, huddling naked for warmth, wolves and the like even while passing and getting passed by other wanderers.   Lack of experience with the area,  on top of the issue of trails aren’t copiously marked did have us running at almost random rather than the route we’d picked out but honestly if you’re running you’re running so if it’s the right route or not  all that matters is you’re out there.

And that’s the biggest thing to running and notrunning is that you get out and do it.

One of my main goals with notrunning is that if it’s a training day then I run.  No excuses.

And measurements are pretty important to guys.”

Obviously life can get in the way of this, things do happen.  But for me in the last 8 months or so, I’ve only broken this rule twice.  Once due to injury, an ankle pain was bad enough I pushed one training day off till the next schedule.  And the other I’d had major dental surgery that morning and had to work a 40 hour day immediately after getting out of surgery for the closing of an M&A where we bought TiVo.

But for me and honestly I imagine for most people letting a day slide makes the next time easier.  And the next easier.   It’s much like dieting.  You have a bite of cake.  So the second bite is easier and before you know it you’re 2000 calories up and the next day you weigh yourself and you’re up 2lbs so obviously the dieting isn’t working so why bother.

One of the big benefits to me is the numbers game.  I export all my numbers to SmashRun.com.  It makes it super easy to see my real world improvement from week to week and month to month.   I can see my average pace times go down over time.  I can see my PR’s keep getting pushed down by new ones.  So numbers and data are all there for the measuring. And measurements are pretty important to guys.

I think that for me that kind of carrot on my treadmill is a big incentive to keep putting on my shoes and heading out.   And that obvious very visible improvement justifies making sure that every training day, I get out and run.

Even if like today, I end up doing a 15k training session that ends in me doing my first trail race and run immediately after it.  So it was a 19K day for me, one quarter of which was getting off the paved road and running over rocks and dirt and up and down stupidly steep inclines for the first time since my paintball glory days back in the 80’s and 90’s.

So I’m, we’re, thinkin’ about doing something stupid and trying a Ultra in the fall.   Given I’ve not yet run a half marathon distance this is where the stupid comes from.

leave me looking like a masochist trussed up in some basement dungeon waiting to be punished”

To that end I’m going to be running further and further distances in the spring and summer.   In Oklahoma in the summer, long distances?  Soooo stupid.

While I have a couple of hydration packs in case of zombie outbreak they’re not designed for running long distances.  One I designed and sewed myself for attaching to a molle vest (also sewn myself) and the other a Source Hydration Pack.

So long story (too late) made shorter I did some research, then more research on hydration carrying options.  I settled on a vest type as I currently have an amphipod for carrying my phone and one water bottle but a 10oz bottle and a Note 4 cause the belt to slide down my butt and I have to keep adjusting it during a run.  Can you say annoying?

But which vest?  Reviews were spotty and we’re back to that size issue I have.   What fits the normal runner, much less the elite runner would leave me looking like a masochist trussed up in some basement dungeon waiting to be punished for being a bad boy.   So I reached out to my unknown friends at Running Warehouse (it’s weird I keep typing Wearhouse) and sent them an email outlining my trials and tribulations with genetics and bell curves, my current running, my planned running and what I thought I might want.   I got an email back quickly saying they were going to research but it might take some time.

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I can live with that so I patiently waited and in a couple of days got back a long detailed email from them with three proposed options and a breakdown of each one.   Of the three options the Jurek FKT aka Fastest Known Time vest appealed to me the most visually and it had the features I wanted.  And the Large size purported to be likely to fit me.

I promptly ordered, yes from RW and not Amazon.   Choosing something for visual appeal is a little shallow but it was far from the only reasons I chose this one.

In a couple of days (free shipping) I got my vest, today to be frank.   I’ve gone over the thing and the quality is good in my sample.  Even, clean seams, no loose threads, all seams banded or overlapped (sewer talk).    It comes with a two bottles but no hydration bladder.   For the price you’d think they could throw one in but honestly I’d rather pick my own, I have preferences in bladders and unless they happened to source the same I’d still get my own and then have paid for a bladder I wasn’t going to use.

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out the bottle nipples.  They’re a type of bite valve but you also have to pull them up.  And if you bite too firmly they close up on you.   They’ll take some getting used to, at least by a #NOTARUNNER such as myself.

Tucked away in the side pockets are some take up straps that keep the side pockets/straps shorter.  I was able to loosen those and end up with a vest that actually fits me and even has some a little extra.  The bottles end up on my Although chest and not under my arms.

If you border on the big side like yours truly then this may be the best option for you.  If your chest at the nipples (bonus points for using the word nipple twice) hits 48″ or more or your chest at the bottom of the rib cage hits more than maybe 45″ then this is unlikely to fit or at least fit well.   I’m currently a 45/43 so I’m happy to reiterate it fits fine.   But there aren’t that many of us big ol’ boys out there trying to train to run stupid long distances.

There are plenty of pockets to carry plenty of things. Although some seem questionable.  Honestly there may be too many if you’re not long distance trail running as you might be inclined to use all those pockets.  Just be smart about what you put in there I suppose.  Ounces equals pounds equals pain when it comes to moving yourself from one point to another.

My biggest complaint is that the supposed cell phone pocket, I assume it is anyway, on the left side strap is only good for smaller phones.  Nothing + sized need apply.   Something on the order of a iPhone 5 or a Galaxy 2 etc.   Galaxy Note’s, S7’s, LG Flex, iPhone 6+, not a chance in hell of fitting.   But it’ll fit in the side tube pockets no problem.

The side pockets seem questionable.  Anything of any real size is going to cause me and possibly you to rub your arm against it while you run unless you’re chicken wingin’ it.   I tend to be a tucked in and tight running so maybe some gels or waffles or something but that’s about it.    They’re also difficult to get into on the run for me but that could be due fitment on my bigger than life frame.

One design changed I’d make if it was my own design is to add attachment points either webbing loops or D rings on the edges of the back to be used with elastic webbing to help keep a bladder flat rather than balling up in the back.   It does have a couple of clips that can be kind used for that but I think some dedicated keepers for the bladder would be good.  But then that’s one more strap that you have to deal with if you’re you know in a race to race and trying to refill your bladder and adding seconds to that etc.

I’d also like to see a mil-spec D ring sewn in at the top of the bladder compartment for hanging bladders from.  Right now there’s a Velcro loop and Velcro, even good mil-spec Velcro, has a limited life span.   I’ll likely just add a D ring there or design and 3D Print something to hang my bladder of choice from.

If you’d like an insulated pocket for the bladder you’re going to have to provide your own insulation.  Some 2 or 3 mil neoprene would work well and is available online.

There are no air flow ridges, bumps, patterns etc on the next to your body side of the vest.  Having put those kinds of things in my own vest design I’m honestly not sure just how useful they are.   Our skin, shirts etc tend to fill those crevices and nooks anyway.    I wouldn’t mind seeing a 3D mesh though as a backer piece and I may sew some in depending on how things get in the heat.  This though would add an ounce or two to the total weight.

I wasn’t too sure about the color, there’s only two options a white one and the other one that’s kind of gray with some green highlight zippers and a yellow elastic netting pattern on the back for holding a jacket or something similar.   The white one wasn’t an option for me.  But in person the color isn’t bad and is acceptable.

The fit is good.  Once you get the straps adjusted, both the take up straps on the sides and the chest straps it fits snugly.  I haven’t taken it for a run yet, a combo 5K + 10K is this Saturday and I’ll wear it then but just a little jogging around the house and it feels good like you’re not wearing anything.

I think I’d like to see some elastic on the chest straps so I may replace those, something to give with you as you breathe and move especially for trail running.

The straps can be moved up and down which makes it more capable of fitting everyone especially women who may have a little more in the chest area than others so you can adjust it up and down so it fits on your boobs where it’s most comfortable.   They’re held in place by T hooks through something that’s basically a very thin molle web.  Pull them through the ‘wrong’ way and then bend the T so it’ll go back through the strap and you can then pick another location to put it.   It’s not as easy as something that just slide up and down but it’s far better than ones that don’t adjust at all.   And frankly unless you’re sharing it with someone, this type of adjustment is typically a one and done.

All in all, yes it’s not the cheapest option but in my many (too many) years I’ve learned if you’re going to use something and use it hard, then you rarely fare well going with the cheapest option.   That doesn’t mean the pricey option is guaranteed to be the best, but your odds are higher.

If I find out it just sucks majorly after putting 50’ish miles on it, I’ll come back here and denote that.  If there’s no ‘update’ mentioned anywhere and this article is a month old then it’s a fairly conservative bet that it’s working out for me just fine.[/expand]

The idea of trail running appeals to me.  I spent untold hours in the woods in my youth, wandering around, catching lizards, climbing rocks, rolling boulders down hills, okay granted they were small boulders.  Even being 6′ by age 12 there’s only so big a boulder you can dislodge by yourself or with friends.

I’m on the far end of the bell curve in terms of size in most areas.  Most.”

Knowing from experience that my road shoes of forced preference suck  donkey butt on grass and non-road terrain I went looking for shoe options.

Thanks to genetics, nutrition, active life style and nurturing environment in my youth, I’m on the far end of the bell curve in terms of size in most areas.  Most.

So with my size 13 4E ideal shoe size requirements firmly in hand I go looking online.  I’m shocked to find there are not one but two whole options for a dedicated trail shoe that comes in that size that is for a neutral to slightly pronated gait.  The New Balance Leadville V3 and the New Balance Hierro V2.   Okay shocked is a strong word, fully expecting is probably the best term.

New Balance has for a lot of years now, okay decades, been my shoe of choice simply because they’re the only manufacture that actively caters to the large footed crowd.

So that they make both of the options I could try isn’t surprising.

The question becomes which one…  Trying one on locally isn’t an option, no one carries either one in the size I need.  Yes I did call around.

The Leadville, in spite of it’s homage to a rather famous trail run as I hear, has a few complaints about it and I don’t care for the odd number of lace holes and the lack of a heel lock hole.  The Hierro being brand new has no real world reviews.

So I’ll have to guess I suppose.  Order one from Running Warehouse and hope it works out.  I have a 50/50 shot of getting the better of the two.

The reason this is coming up is I have this stupid ass thought of trying to do a 50k trail run in fall.   Says the person who’s still to do a half marathon (scheduled for May).   It’s a beginner trail run with a fair amount of dirt and gravel roads as part of the trail.  And 50k is enough to get you the Ultra runner status albeit by just a few miles.  But you can by letter of the law sashay around the holding pens in your “yeah I ran an ultra, what have you done lately?” shirt.

And honestly isn’t that worth something?