All posts by TREX

With the Altra Torin 2.5’s being on sale for near half price everywhere I bought a pair.  I ran them yesterday for my intervals (10min warmup, 5min Z4, 1m z2, repeat 4) with my running partner.

makes me bounce like Tigger on a sugar rush”

I wanted the Altra Paradigm 2.0’s but they’re hard to find in my size.  They’re a maximal cushioned shoe, i.e. a massive stack height.  For long distances though a maximal stack height is something I kind of want.

It was wet out, a bit of a spring downpour had just gone overhead so the first thing I noted about the Torin’s is they actually have some traction on asphalt unlike my Hoka Clifton 3’s which are very slippery on wet concrete.

The Torin’s are definitely a ‘moderate’ cushion shoe.  I’m not sure I’d want to run a marathon in them without dropping another 70 lbs.

The 0 drop shoes reinforce moving off of heel striking but they can only go so far in changing your stride.  Trying to switch from a hard core heel striker after 50 years of running that way is tough.   Trying to toe strike makes me bounce like Tigger on a sugar rush. Getting a mid foot strike may be the best compromise I can come up with.

I think they run a little small myself in spite of their ‘true to size’ rating.  My foot measures as a 12.6 on the U.S. foot scale and at a 13 these may require a little breaking in or thinner socks than the Balega Blister Resists I was wearing to fit ‘right’.   As usual when things are a little crowded my pointer and middle toes on my right foot start to complain at about the 3 mile mark.

Luckily I have three boys who wear the same size shoes so any shoes I don’t like for running and aren’t bad enough to send back go to them.   So if these don’t work out one of them will get them.

Each time I do intervals I do think my natural pace is faster than my current pace.  9’s feels more natural to me as a pace.  The problem is I can’t maintain it for a long distance.  It takes a lot of energy to push as much mass as I have and am likely to continue to have and the energy costs are not linear as pace increases as you’re very aware.

On a plus note, I matched my 5K PR time during this training session and I could have pushed it more for a 5K distance.  On top of that it was an after work run and my morning runs are always better.  Bottom line my next 5K, first Friday in May should see me with a new PR.  Of course the day after that 5K I’m running back to back Warrior Dashes.  So those may not be all that fast. 🙂

A #runner I deal with on a daily basis REALLY wants a Stryd.  I was looking at them, the whole train by power thing and the #omfgaccurate allegedly for pace it is interesting but I’m not sure about the data. How do you ‘use’ that data to become more efficient or better at #notrunning?

I was looking at their training plans and they seem to be dominated by intervals and hilly intervals.  The whole high intensity training seems to be everywhere.  My own Garmin based training plans have quite a lot of it.

I doubt I’ll ever get down to the 8′ pace I had in my 20’s/30’s again.  There’s a very valid reason the BQ times get longer based on age.   There’s only so much stress/output you can squeeze out of the human body at any given age and in general it continually declines over time after peaking far too soon IMO of the human lifespan.

Interestingly statistically #runners who start young burn out in their 30’s in terms of their PR times.   #notarunners who are more casual in their efforts can set PR’s quite later in life.  So in theory I still have some performance increases and can keep setting PR’s.

Yesterday we both, my running partner, also known as a running wife apparently, got back on the trail.  Not a trail literally, just a jogging path.  I used a pair of Nimbus 18’s which I’ve put a few hundred miles on that model of shoe without any obvious issue.  This is just to help reduce the number of factors that might have lead to my knee issue.

It felt hard to me, harder than it has been in awhile”

We also took a mostly flat path, very little elevation change except for one tiny incline/decline.   My partner has been off with a case of foot problems for a week and in spite of that break she ran her fastest 4 miles ever at 11 minute miles.  You go girl!

It felt hard to me, harder than it has been in awhile at least even though I ran two 10k’s are the same or faster pace just this last weekend.   Maybe that’s why it felt hard.  Or that since I wasn’t running I was ‘running’ on about 1300 calories a day.   Not so hard I couldn’t have gone on further but hard enough I was glad enough to have the 45 minutes roll up on the ol’ watch.   The knee was twingy most of the way but not ‘too’ bad.  We’ll see how my next run works out.

Today is a crossfit day. Which turned out to be a mow the lawn and some basic yard work.   Nothing like getting your exercise and a slightly more presentable yard.

The next run is Sunday with a 105 minute Z2 run so about 11:30 minute pace.

The half marathon is only 3 weeks away.  I have no doubt, barring injury, we should be able to finish it.  I would like to finish it in a reasonable time, for a #notarunner.  Right now I’m not sure what I’m going to run it in.  The clifton’s?  The nimbus 18’s? Nimbus 19’s? Or…?

I have a pair of Altra Torin 2.5’s coming in.  I may have already mentioned that.  They have a score of 87/88 on www.runrepeat.com and I guess there’s a new model out or coming out because they’re on pretty deep discount everywhere.  I really like my Lone Peak 2.5 trail shoes, I wear them as daily shoes.

But it’s possible that no drop shoes aren’t for me or at least not yet.  In spite of my having spent most of my youth barefoot.  And quite a lot of my first decade as an adult to be honest.  It wasn’t till I hit 40 or so that constant wearing of shoes got the calluses down on my soles.  Elephant hide should be so tough.

So I’ve missed my second scheduled training day in the last 10 months. I ran a 10K race on Saturday (setting a new PR by 6 minutes; go #notarunner). I’ve felt a couple of twinges in my left knee on a few of my last runs, nothing major, just enough to make you go “hmm I don’t care for that”.

putting a cold pack on it twice a day trying to encourage shrinkage”

Then Sunday I had a 10K training session. Now leading up to the training run my knee was doing okay after the 10k, no major ouchies. But from the very first running stride on Sunday my knee went straight from a 0 to a level 3 pain (out of 10). I of course being me did the run and if I hadn’t already set a PR for my 10K the day before I’d of set it on Sunday just not as fast.

But not being totally dumb I decided to give my Tuesday run, a 45minute Z3 run, a pass. One could say I’d already done it and then some between Sat and Sun’s runs. And then some. But I don’t want to risk doing greater damage because honestly if I’m out for any significant length of time I don’t know that I’ll start up again. I don’t enjoy it, it’s taken me 9 months to get from the couch and 2 minute runs to being able run for 2+ hours. Not sure I have the enthusiasm and energy to fall very far and have to climb back up.

In regards to the injury I’ve gone so far as to putting a cold pack on it twice a day trying to encourage shrinkage and increasing my intake of turmeric and tart cherry extract/juice as well as nsaids. All anti-inflammatory. I also now own KT tape and use it as directed on the off chance it does what it says. There’s no science that I could find to back up their claims and their benefits could easily fall under the psychosomatic category but for a few bucks I’m willing to give it a shot.

The pain site and symptoms all say ‘runner’s knee’ which is inflammation of the attachment points of the tendons. Not sure if there’s a specific cause, we’ve added more mileage, more hills and on top of that trail running. I don’t ‘think’ it’s shoes since I’ve worn three different pairs of shoes during this time frame, Nimbus 19’s, Topo Terraventure and Hoka Clifton 3’s.

I think I’m going to add a pair of Altra Torin 2.5 or Paradigm 2.0 to my line up. Luckily with 3 kids, ages 14, 12 and 12 who are all over 6′-2″ any shoes that don’t work out for me I simply give to them as daily shoes.

Tomorrow is another training day. I may either due Tuesdays run 45m z3 or Thursday’s run of 7 minute sprints followed by 90 second recoveries x 3. With a 10 minute warm up. Not sure which is going to be least stressful.

Sunday is 105 minute z2 run. We’ll see how it goes.

Ran my first real 10k race today.   By real I mean one that I was able to run it at my pace, as slow as that pace is.

I guess mine suffered from shrinkage as it has been cold”

I ended up with 1:08:00 for my 10K time.  This shaved 6+ minutes off my last 10K PR time so that’s not bad.    I was also able to get negative splits on almost every mile.  Only mile 2 was a few seconds slower than the preceding mile.   Average pace was 10:54.  My last mile was at a 10:12 pace.

I felt okay at the end of the race and now which means I could have shaved a another minute or two off my total time.   At no time was I huffing although the last 3 miles saw my HR creep from a low Zone 3 and into Zone 4.   That’s telling me that my upcoming half (April 28th) I’ll have to slow it down.

Using the Race Predictor in Pace+ for Android it’s showing me at a 2:30 for a half.    Which is IMO far more realistic than the Garmin race predictor which has me running a half in 1:51:19.    The Garmin’s predictions in my opinion are more than a little jacked up.   I can’t do a mile in 8 flat much less the 5K Garmin says I can do in 24:12.   I’m honestly not sure what Garmin uses to get these numbers but they’re far more enthusiastic for everyone I know who has them than is possible.

Anyway the Pace+ at 2:30:00 is right where I think I may land.  If I can do a half in 2:30 I’ll be fairly okay with that.   I’m still 120lbs heavier than the average distance runner.  That’s a LOT of dead weight to be carrying over long distances.  It’s better than the almost 200lbs over the average runner I did have.

This race I ran with a Nathan hand held, I really like the strap on those, super soft materials.   In it I had 150calories worth of Tailwind Orange, basically a scoop and a half.   I went through almost all of the 15oz of it over the course of the race.  The bottle supposedly holds 16 oz but I guess mine suffered from shrinkage as it has been cold.  Or the fact that it’s double shelled for insulation is consuming some of the internal space.

For the Golden Driller Half I’ll be wearing my Jurek FKT vest with the one 20oz bottles of plain water and one with a 2 scoop Tailwind mix. I’ll also put probably 20oz or so in my bladder, not so much because I may need it all but to just balance things out.

Tomorrow is a 10K training run and I’m going to try the Green Tea Tailwind, I ordered a sampler pack to find out if I like one of the other flavors better.   The Green Tea version appeals as it has caffeine in it which on early morning runs I can use to keep a caffeine headache at bay.   I also picked up a bottle of SaltStick Plus tabs which have caffeine in them that I can also use to offset a headache.

I found the Tailwind to be better for me than any of the gels.  I still prefer Stinger Waffles for taste, texture, enjoyment, but Tailwind is likely to become my primary fuel source for longer runs and I’ll reserve chewables for pre-race carb hits.

My Hoka Clifton 3’s held up well during the race, no complaints with them at all.   I believe this is the first >4 mile run I’ve done in them.  If I don’t find anything better I’ll probably order a couple or three pairs when the Clifton 4’s come out and the 3’s take a price cut.   They’re not OMFG good but they’re good enough to invest in if there’s nothing better.   I’m hoping the Topo road shoes get an upgrade this year, I’d love to give them another shot.

When I started running one of the things that concerned me was dying while running, literally.  Dropping over from a heart attack, zombie bite, whatever.

while a junior wife sounds tempting”

So one of the things I did was get a RoadID from roadid.com so that if I did expire someone would be able to ID the body and let my wife know.  I’m wearing two charms on it, #NOTARUNNER and 10K which is my current furthest race distance.

Another thing I did was install Automate on my android phone.  Automate is a block based programming application that lets you do a lot of super cool things with an android phone.  Some things do require root of course.

One of the things I was able to do was set up an panic button so to speak.  If I press my power button 3 times in 5 seconds it sends my wife an emergency text with my current GPS coordinates.  Technically it’s the fact that the screen comes on and turns off 3 times in 5 seconds which is what pushing the power button repeatedly does.     It works fine as we’ve had a handful of false triggers due to accidental pushes.  Each time she calls me and verifies I’m not dying somewhere.   If I don’t answer then she’ll pull up the Garmin Livetrack and see if I’m not moving.  Or ping me on Google’s Trusted Contacts app which if I don’t deny the request for my location then something bad is likely happening.

It’s these kinds of things that make running by yourself regardless of the circumstances safer.  Whether a health issue, tripping and smashing your head on the street, getting your throat torn out by a zombie, hit by a drunk or just stupid or texting while driving driver etc, these are all (okay most of them) valid reasons that you might need help quickly and be in a position where maybe just spam clicking your power button is the only option you have.

Now that I primarily run with someone it’s not as big a concern but I still have solo days so having that peace of mind helps.

Other things I’ve set up is to have texts read to me while I’m running, just SMS though so texts from iphone users which use MMS for everythign don’t work.

And I’ve added the ability that calls from unknown numbers, i.e. not in my contacts list, go straight to voicemail, not even a ring on my phone.  I get a jacked up amount of bullshit calls a day from random callers for everything from helping my credit score to getting a second wife.   And while a junior wife sounds tempting, it’s not really something I’m going to interview on the phone for.

I’ve added a couple of hand helds to my inventory and have been using one lately.   On 2+ hour runs my arms, especially my left one has been bothering me so I thought adding hand helds would help in conditioning my arms to be bent at an L shape for hours on end.   And it lets me not use my belt which can be annoying if I have anything more than keys and my phone on it.

having the most cushion you can get will make it more comfortable for all concerned.”

The jury is still out on if I care for the handhelds.   For trail runs they restrict my ability to catch myself on a fall or use trees as hand holds when the trails get really technical.   Also since I carry my phone with me so that my wife can track me using Garmin Live Track it puts my phone at risk; if I have to catch myself the phone is going to take the hit first.

I read a study that had data that indicated hand held water is the least efficient way to carry water if you carry water at all.   A vest is best followed by a belt or pack and then hand helds.   This is due to the fact that it takes more energy/effort when your water is at the end of levers, aka your arms, as opposed to just riding passively at your back or waist.

This coming weekend is my first 10K race on Saturday and I think I’m going to wear my Hoka Clifton 3’s.   The last few runs I’ve used my Nimbus 19’s, Topo Terraventures and Clifton 3’s with a mix of distances, 11 miles to 3 miles, and road to trails and my left knee on the outside has been bothering me.  Nothing ‘major’ but enough to make me shorten my stride and slow down my pace.  But I think having the most cushion you can get will make it more comfortable for all concerned.

Tomorrow is an hour run at zed 3 pacing, for me that’s going to be around an 10:30 to 11:00 mile pace.   We’ll see how the knee fares with that, I’ll be using some compression sleeves on my calves to see if it makes a difference.

I have noticed that compression sleeves have helped me with calf pain when I run with slower runners; yes Virginia there are slower runners than me.

Last long run I used some DIY Huma chia gels.  Even making my own I’m just not a fan of chia based gels.   It was chia seeds ground to a flour in a spice grinder, a mix of complex sugars, tart cherry juice and strawberry puree.  With some sea salt and salt substitute for sodium and potassium.  But in general I find the gels to be barely tolerable at best and downright eww at worst.

My preferred supplements are still the Stinger waffles and the Stinger chews.  I’m probably never going to be a high fat low carb non-runner in spite of my normal diet consisting of high protein, moderate fat and low carbs.

One month give or take and I’ll do my first half marathon.  I don’t see me not finishing.  I would like to finish in in a 2:30 or less but we’ll see how it goes.   Remember I’m carrying 120lbs more than the average runner’s weight, it takes a lot of energy to move that much mass and the energy costs aren’t linear.

Sunday was another long, for a #notarunner, day and it wasn’t good.  Easily the worst/hardest run I’ve had in spite of running the exact same distance and format a week previously on that week’s long run.

you should strive for though is to not just let the body win.  Screw that.”

Your basic 10 walk, 60 minute run, 10 minute walk, 60 minute run, cool down, at least basic to the Garmin half marathon level 1 heart zone based training plan.

Without a time machine to go back and try alternatives I’ve found the Garmin plans to work for me, at least I keep moving forward in ability.  My current ‘running wife’ as I’ve been informed she is called has slowed my progress down a bit the last month or two but she’s pretty much caught up with me at this point and we can advance together so it’s fine.

But this last long run was just awful.  There is obvious causation, one I have a cold/flu.

Two I decided to not do add any carbs to my diet the day before the run, I’m by nature of my desire to lose weight always carb empty on any given day. I usually try to swap a few hundred calories of fats/proteins for carbs the night before a race or extra long run but not this time to see the impact.

The only carbs I had was a stinger waffle right before the run started and some homemade chia gu, essentially the same thing as the Huma gu’s just a lot cheaper at the turn around point.

Three I’m running at a 6 month calorie deficit. This has resulted in the lost of roughly 20% of my starting body weight in total and the conversion of less dense fat for higher density muscle.  Never a bad thing really.

Four is a lack of sleep period, much less ‘good’ sleep which I don’t know what that means anymore.

And lucky number 5 is work stress where I’m wrestling with the option of staying and working in a situation I don’t care to be in but leaving the people I work with by going to some unknown situation where things might be better, might be worse.

I don’t know which factor(s) contributed the most but at the turn around point I felt pretty bad, the second hour run was maybe a 45-50 minute run at best.  The rest was walking.  I walked up hills that I’ve powered up every time in the past.   The cool down period was a major effort of will just to keep walking to the car.

When I got home I just covered a chair in some towels and collapsed on it for a good 30-45 minutes before I had the enthusiasm to get up and shower.  Never done that before.  I can’t stand being in sweaty damp clothes if I’m not actively doing something to make those clothes sweaty and damp.

So yeah, not a great run.

The whoooole point of this story is to if you’re #notarunner like myself know that there are going to be some bad days.  There may be reasons, there may not be reasons, it could external factors or internal factors but regardless you’re going to have off days.

And those are the days where you get to choose who’s the boss of you.  Your failing body or your great brain.   And sometimes it’s a compromise “Okay body, we just push through these last 10 minutes and then we walk it on home.  Pansy.”

What you should strive for though is to not just let the body win.  Screw that nose.  Compromise if you have to, but never give in completely.  In the duality that is the mental and physicality of you, the mental part should be in the driver seat even if it sometimes means you get into a fender bender from time to time because you didn’t listen to the squeaking brakes.

And yes Virginia you should listen to the brakes, but that doesn’t mean you have to always pay attention to them.

I wore my Topo Ultrafly’s today, took them for a around the block run and they’re just too small.   I wear a size 12.5 to 13 depending on the brand and at 13’s the Ultrafly’s were killing my toes.

Sometimes it’s a pain in the ass being as big as I am, not literally, well not usually.”

The Topo Ultrafly shoes definitely run small.   But that means I have to jump to a size 14 if I want to try them because no one makes half sizes after 12’s.

I was looking at the Altra Paradigm 2.0’s as well but again the same issue.  Everyone says size up a half size.  Well when you’re a 13 that means going up to a 14.

Not sure what the ratio might be but my pointer toes are longer than my big toe and my middle toe is as long as my big toe.  Both the pointer and middle toe were either hitting the end of the shoe on impact or pushoff on both feet or just getting compressed down due to lack of height of toebox.

In either case it meant I had to box them up and take them back to the store.  I really wanted to like them, I took their almost identical twins, the terraventures out this morning on the trails and did somewhere between 3 and 4 miles without any problems at all in the same size 13’s.

After some rummaging around and trying on alternatives I swapped the ultrafly’s out for some current model Hoka Cliftons.   I’d tried some last year and the marshmallow cushioning was just too offputting for me as a new #notarunner.  I felt with each step I was going to turn an ankle.

These new Clifton’s are not nearly as mushy and honestly feel a lot like my Nimbus 18/19’s.

But I really want a splayable toe box which means the Altra’s or the Topo’s.   My Altra Lone Peak 2.5’s are as mentioned the most comfortable shoes I’ve worn ever.   They’re just not 50K shoes.  I’ll  use them for shorter trail runs without any problem.

I don’t think the Terraventure’s are going to be a 50K shoe for me either. We’ll see how they do with some more miles on them but I’m still looking.

In a road shoe as well I have the same problem.   The Nimbus 18/19 are not a marathon shoe for me I don’t believe.   My longest run to date is 11 miles and I think maybe a half is about as far as I want to take those shoes.

But I have whatever miles are left on my 19’s and a spare pair of 18’s as an emergency backup solution.   And now these Clifton’s.   How they work out remains to be seen, they’re not honestly wide enough for me to be a 50K shoe either I don’t think, not without some serious breaking in, but they may be okay as a trainer.

Sometimes it’s a pain in the ass to being as big as I am, not literally, usually.  But things like finding shoes that fit or even clothes, I fall into a weird size where my waist size and inseam are unusual.   Apparently people with my inseam size are much fatter than me or people with my waist size are taller than me.   Not that that’s always the case now.  I’ve lost enough weight that I’m starting to look like a shar pei puppy from the right angles and need a whole new wardrobe.  But do I buy for the ‘me now’ size or the ‘me I wanna get to so I can run further faster’ size?

Asics Nimbus 19 update – I’m not finding the shoe to be very durable.  I’ll be surprised if I get 250 miles out of it to be 100% frank.   Comfort wise for my feet they’re good shoes.  I’ve run my longest distance so far, 11 miles, in them without issue.  But the the tread, what there is, is wearing off where I push off on the forefoot on both shoes.   The lining is pilling up in the heel area where my blister resist patches don’t cover.

the better the cushion the better the pushin’ is something I’ll have to keep in mind.”

And this is with maybe 120 miles on them.  My 18’s got 300 miles before I wore the heels out of them.  I wasn’t using any blister patches on those or even just your basic duct tape or gorilla tape patch.

Granted I’m a super clydesdale but still I expect more I guess from a ‘premium’ shoe that runs $150 dollars release price.

In my search for a 50K trail shoe I picked up some Topo Terraventure’s.   I haven’t run in them yet but they fit better than my Leadville 3’s and my Altra Lone Peak 2.5’s.

I ran 4 miles today on trails in the Altra’s and they felt decent but I don’t think they’re 50K shoes for me.   They’re super comfortable though.  If they don’t work out as trail shoes then I’ll make them every day shoes, they’re that comfortable.

I also picked up a pair of Topo Ultrafly shoes.  The Topo shoes have some very good reviews and both felt pretty good to me.

I’m still looking for a marathon distance road shoe.  I’m not sure the Ultrafly is it but the Nimbus 19 and 18’s are not.    I have a pair of 18’s I picked up cheap as spares for interval and tempo training runs but getting something for the weekly long runs which keep getting longer is needed.  To go the distance the old adage the better the cushion the better the pushin’ is something I’ll have to keep in mind.

Ridiculously that gives me 3 pairs of road shoes and 3 pairs of trail shoes.  Which is crazy talk for #notarunner.   In my 20’s I ran literally in the same shoes I wore every day.  Just basic generic ‘tennies’.   With a $10 timex digital watch with a stop watch feature.   Distance was based on half mile marker posts on the trail or the cross streets.

But now shoes that are perfectly acceptable for 5k’s are questionable for 10k’s and really need to be re-examined for longer distances.

How times have changed.

Today was the longest run yet for us.  Two and a half hours broken up into a 10,60,10,60,10 session.   10 minute walks, 60 minute runs.   The idea being of course to get us used to beatnig our feet on the pavement for hours at a time.

I can eat anything and I mean almost anything to be polite or on request”

It’s all well and good, even necessary based on conventional training wisdom, to do HIIT and tempo and fartleks for speed and VO2 max and lactate acidifying and all that but to prepare your body for running distance requires running distance.  Shorter length and time segments do not simulate the pounding you take over the long haul.

We covered 11 miles in our 2 hour 30 minute session.  Not very impressive but then again… #NOTARUNNER.  This session was also a Z2 heart rate zone session and my average BPM was barely 117.  Not quite full training for me. But when you run with someone you run with someone.  This is something I’ve already covered.

My current running partner has matched me for speed but I have 6+ months on her in terms of training so conditioning she still working on.   She’s come a long way in the 3ish months she’s been training, far faster and longer than myself.    She pushes herself hard, possibly too hard to keep up with me showing an order of magnitude greater spirit and dedication than I have myself.

Our first half is coming up in roughly 7 weeks, April 28th.   I’ll be okay if we finish in 2.5 hours.  Hell I’ll be okay if we finish in under 3h.   I may have mentioned (once or twice) but I’m not built like a runner and at the moment with 270lbs I’m pushing a little more weight up those hills than your average actual runner.   So honestly just finishing each new length race as I do them for the first time is a step in the right direction for me.

Today for nutrition I tried Gu’s Stroopwafel, the chocolate one and I was very not impressed.  It wasn’t bad but it was even more bland than the Stinger Waffles if that’s possible.   I won’t be purchasing a box.

I also tried Gu’s Chocolate Fudge gel.  Not a fan and I’m not sure if it was the distance or the gel but right around the 10 mile mark I started feeling slightly nauseous.  It also could have been lack of caffeine.   But overall the Gu chocolate was like eating the cheapest uncooked brownie fudge batter, the  2 for a $1 kind.    I can eat anything and I mean almost anything to be polite or on request that doesn’t mean I don’t have preferences.

My strong preference is still the Stinger Chews followed by Stinger Waffles in commercial solid nutrition.   Runner up is Clif Bloks.

I’m going to be taking a look at Topo shoes in a couple of weeks when one of the FLSS’s gets a shipment in.   Both the road and trail shoes.   I wore my Altra Lone Peak 2.5’s yesterday for about an hour walking and the 0 drop does really promote toe/mid foot striking which I need to try to shift to.   The Altra’s are very comfortable, probably the most comfortable shoe I have in terms of feel.   But an hour of walking in 0 drop left my calves just starting to take notice of the lack of heel.

The Topo’s at 3 to 5mm drop are a reasonable alternative to 0 drop I think and they have some pretty good reviews.   They’re foot shaped like the Altras which means they might possibly fit me.

When I was at one of the FLSS’s one of the worker/runners there who’s a ultrarunner and does 350 miles of trails a month was wearing Topo’s and was pretty enthusiast about them.   Since I still haven’t found ‘my’ shoe I’m willing to investigate further.   Once I find ‘my’ shoes I’m buying 20 pairs of them as one thing I’ve learned is every year the shoe companies change each shoe up and the changes mean you may be looking for another ‘your’ shoe as a result.